7.13.2004
The ABC's of Health Care
It seems that health care costs are rising every month, as always, and seriously threaten to consume a huge share; if not, our entire standard of living. The essential reason for this is that the health care industry is in the hands of the Democrats who want to make it more and more of a noncompetitive, insurance based, govt monopoly in response to the ever rising costs, and their natural collectivist mentality.
Republicans view this as throwing gasoline on the fire. They want freedom and capitalism to do for the cost and availability of medical care what it did for the cost and availability of computer hardware and software, and most of the other goods and services in the American economy. They argue that health care is not a special case or that if it is, it therefore is more rather than less in need of freedom. They site dental care, lasik eye surgery, and plastic surgery as perfect examples of stable or dropping costs in medical care; and specifically because the Democrats are noticeably absent in those areas of medical care.
Republicans want to slowly convert to individual medical saving accounts so consumers will shop for medical care, from competitive businesses, with their own money precisely the way they shop for everything else. Democrats and socialists and communists believe people are too stupid for freedom and that only they can regulate the lives of stupid people properly.
7.08.2004
More debate with a Zionist
Nope, you have no argument and you refuse to think.
******ok lets see
You say the "Arabs were driven away.."--huh? Speak plainly and truthfully. No one was driven away. A partition plan was offered. The Jews accepted. The Arabs declared war. The Arabs simply did not find themselves in refugee camps and the Jews clearly did not put them there. Stop lying. Seek the truth.
*******Benny Morris has written the most thorough account of this and it clearly shows the Zionists were very involved in driving the Arabs out and in keeping them out. Benny Morris' 600 page book with complete documentation is really a mind blower for you isn't it? It cuts through the brain washing doesn't it, but are you brave enough to see a new honest world?
Obviously, if there was no war declared on the Jews, there would be no refugees.
*******There are 19th Century documents which referred to driving the Arabs out. Begin said in 1973 "we are liberating Judea and Sumeria according to biblical prophecy; not occupying it. Again truth cuts through the superstitious brainwashing doesn't it. Please show a little bravery David.
And it is no "irrelevancy" that Jews were kicked out of all Arab nations. You have it all upside down. The very fact that the Arabs who stayed put during the 1948 war live happily in Israel
*******they live happily despite hating the Zionists??
and those who sought to murder the Jews in their newly founded state went elsewhere is
no example of Genocide.
*********true, but that they are forced to live in concentration camps like environments on the West Bank and not allowed to return to their deeded property is. Additionally, the Zionists now want to steal the West Bank too.
23 Arabs states can still take them in and will not do it. The one Jewish State is still not
recognized by her neighbors but is asked to recognize a nonexistent and non-historical "people"--the Palestinians. But the Jews offer such recognition. They offer a Palestinian State with half of Jerusalem and the heartland of their state cut in half for the satisfaction of these thugs and Arafat still turns Barak and Clinton down. He turned Barak down and declared war yet again.
*******all true but not relevant to our conversation which as you will recall had to with a fair and practical peace plan for the region, i.e., a return to 1973 borders, a wall around those borders, and international defense.
If the lights go out in an urban area and some people decide to riot and plunder--they risk being arrested when the lights come back on.
******ture but so what?
Face it pal. The only solution you continue to offer to 5.5 million Jews living in their own state is to pack it up and leave.
****** you're like a brainwashed parrot. The peace plan is above!
The Jews have done everything else and done it consistently in 1935 and 1948 and 1967
and throughout the 1970s and most recently, as I cited with the latest rejection by Arafat to Barak's plan to given up almost everything back to the 1967 borders. Isn't any of this meaningful?
*******no, since it did not cause peace.
You keep referencing "superstition" as if it means something.
*******it must or it would not be in the dictionary?
Sovereignty is meaningful. Victory in war is meaningful. The League of Nations mandate
created many of the ME states and this is meaningful since it created a huge Jewish State--that the world subsequently rejected because it hates Jews. The UN Partion plan was meaningful but was summarily rejected by the Arabs. The 1970's brought more emphatic "No's" by all Arab parties. They still say no to a settlement that gives Israel a tiny sliver of land and a chunk of desert with few inhabitants--with half of the Jewish capitol given to the Arab side.
********yes all true but so what?? You take endless pleasure in racist comments about Arabs as if that makes Zionist aggression legal or moral.
They want it all. They have always wanted it all. They define "peace" as no Jews within their line of sight. This is why a Jew living peacefully in a home he has bought on land that belongs to no one else is an "obstacle to peace."
*******often the property was bought from Israel despite deeds help by Arab owners.
You side with the lawless hatred. You applaud the genocide and the suicide bombers.
You justify it all as a response to "Zionist aggression."
********If I ever did that I'm sure you"ll produce the quote to prove it very soon..... won't you???
You are beyond the pale.
*******closing with insults as usual
I'm done.
******you never started thinking
You will not offer one suggestion about how Israel can make it right.
********have always said a pull back to internationally established and recognized borders, international defense, a wall of separation, and payment to refugee camp survivors was the only viable solution. Please be brave David.
How many more times it must offer half of its own territory in return for the hope of peace. You make no suggestion that the Arabs owe any contribution to the cause of peace. It is all the fault of the Jews for living.
*******it is all the fault of the Jews for living??? That borders on paranoid insanity
Yes, we live
********did someone say you were dead???
******ok lets see
You say the "Arabs were driven away.."--huh? Speak plainly and truthfully. No one was driven away. A partition plan was offered. The Jews accepted. The Arabs declared war. The Arabs simply did not find themselves in refugee camps and the Jews clearly did not put them there. Stop lying. Seek the truth.
*******Benny Morris has written the most thorough account of this and it clearly shows the Zionists were very involved in driving the Arabs out and in keeping them out. Benny Morris' 600 page book with complete documentation is really a mind blower for you isn't it? It cuts through the brain washing doesn't it, but are you brave enough to see a new honest world?
Obviously, if there was no war declared on the Jews, there would be no refugees.
*******There are 19th Century documents which referred to driving the Arabs out. Begin said in 1973 "we are liberating Judea and Sumeria according to biblical prophecy; not occupying it. Again truth cuts through the superstitious brainwashing doesn't it. Please show a little bravery David.
And it is no "irrelevancy" that Jews were kicked out of all Arab nations. You have it all upside down. The very fact that the Arabs who stayed put during the 1948 war live happily in Israel
*******they live happily despite hating the Zionists??
and those who sought to murder the Jews in their newly founded state went elsewhere is
no example of Genocide.
*********true, but that they are forced to live in concentration camps like environments on the West Bank and not allowed to return to their deeded property is. Additionally, the Zionists now want to steal the West Bank too.
23 Arabs states can still take them in and will not do it. The one Jewish State is still not
recognized by her neighbors but is asked to recognize a nonexistent and non-historical "people"--the Palestinians. But the Jews offer such recognition. They offer a Palestinian State with half of Jerusalem and the heartland of their state cut in half for the satisfaction of these thugs and Arafat still turns Barak and Clinton down. He turned Barak down and declared war yet again.
*******all true but not relevant to our conversation which as you will recall had to with a fair and practical peace plan for the region, i.e., a return to 1973 borders, a wall around those borders, and international defense.
If the lights go out in an urban area and some people decide to riot and plunder--they risk being arrested when the lights come back on.
******ture but so what?
Face it pal. The only solution you continue to offer to 5.5 million Jews living in their own state is to pack it up and leave.
****** you're like a brainwashed parrot. The peace plan is above!
The Jews have done everything else and done it consistently in 1935 and 1948 and 1967
and throughout the 1970s and most recently, as I cited with the latest rejection by Arafat to Barak's plan to given up almost everything back to the 1967 borders. Isn't any of this meaningful?
*******no, since it did not cause peace.
You keep referencing "superstition" as if it means something.
*******it must or it would not be in the dictionary?
Sovereignty is meaningful. Victory in war is meaningful. The League of Nations mandate
created many of the ME states and this is meaningful since it created a huge Jewish State--that the world subsequently rejected because it hates Jews. The UN Partion plan was meaningful but was summarily rejected by the Arabs. The 1970's brought more emphatic "No's" by all Arab parties. They still say no to a settlement that gives Israel a tiny sliver of land and a chunk of desert with few inhabitants--with half of the Jewish capitol given to the Arab side.
********yes all true but so what?? You take endless pleasure in racist comments about Arabs as if that makes Zionist aggression legal or moral.
They want it all. They have always wanted it all. They define "peace" as no Jews within their line of sight. This is why a Jew living peacefully in a home he has bought on land that belongs to no one else is an "obstacle to peace."
*******often the property was bought from Israel despite deeds help by Arab owners.
You side with the lawless hatred. You applaud the genocide and the suicide bombers.
You justify it all as a response to "Zionist aggression."
********If I ever did that I'm sure you"ll produce the quote to prove it very soon..... won't you???
You are beyond the pale.
*******closing with insults as usual
I'm done.
******you never started thinking
You will not offer one suggestion about how Israel can make it right.
********have always said a pull back to internationally established and recognized borders, international defense, a wall of separation, and payment to refugee camp survivors was the only viable solution. Please be brave David.
How many more times it must offer half of its own territory in return for the hope of peace. You make no suggestion that the Arabs owe any contribution to the cause of peace. It is all the fault of the Jews for living.
*******it is all the fault of the Jews for living??? That borders on paranoid insanity
Yes, we live
********did someone say you were dead???
Debating a Zionist!
No Ted--you have no logic. You assault logic--you defy it. It is your code of honor.
*******ah more name calling. It seems to be 80% of what you do. Glad you have a little fight left in you, but lets see what logic will do for you. Please do not be afraid to learn and think. Do you want to die just as your are or do you want to grow?
You use inflammatory language. You allege that the Jews commit GENOCIDE--- this is a particularly delicious strategy. Accusing the Jews of committing violence against others as violence was committed against themselves. Classic and very libelous.
*******if you read Benny Morris you will see that Golda Meir also found that the condition of the evicted Arabs reminded her of Hitler's Jews.
Then, you also reference "superstition" without regard to the fact that the superstitions of the Arabs CAUSE needless conflict and pain.
*****yes I think the Arabs are superstitious and dumb and cruel too but that does not change the peace plan to which you originally responded. You find it too painful to stick to the subject so you get lost in irrelevancy but always cling to your irrationality and superstition.
The world suffers over the Arab insistence that Jerusalem is somehow "Holy" to them.
You see holiness is not allowed to the Jewish people--only the Arabs.
******that is again very stupid, the UN and most of the world acknowledge that Jerusalem is an holy international city to which 3 religions, or superstitions, can lay legitimate claim to the extend that superstitions can be lay legitimate claim.
Fine--please....let the Arabs be holy and seek holiness.
******sadly that is their right;that is how freedom works
The trouble is that Jerusalem is
the capital of the Jewish state.
****** because you declared it so, despite the UN and the rest of the civilized world???
The Arabs claim it as their "third holiest site." But this is based on real superstition.
*******ah, so now you're distinguishing between real superstition and regular superstition?
The Dome of the Rock is by legend where Muhammad ascended to heaven in some mythical chariot. This is not history. It is rubbish. It was a mere slap to the Jews to place a large gold domed mosque right on top of the very real and the very historical Temple Mount where the Jewish people built two great temples. Further, the Mosque was created also as a slap against Christians that wish to have Jewish supremacy over the area. In fact, it is war. It is aggression.
*********please try to think just a little. Muslims, Christians, and Jews all have ancient superstitious claims in the Middle East but we aren't going to rearrange 21st Century borders to suit ancient superstitions. The Indians have a claim to Manhattan; in fact refugee movements populated the entire planet but this has nothing to do with modern internationally recognized borders.
What blame do you assign to the Arabs for this obvious provocation? The answer is none. Only Jews can provoke.
**********not at all, the Arabs attacked or provoked all along based of their superstitions and parochial natures but this does not relieve Zionists from their responsibility to do the right thing.
The genocide allegation is so void of any merit. It is so shocking that anyone could ever utter it.
*******the Arabs were driven out of Israel and now live in near concentration camps on the West Bank; this is close enough to genocide. The Jews don't kill the Arabs like we killed the Nazis because their guilt won't allow them too. They are guilty about Zionism and the world knows it. Israel still has right to exist however!
The fact of the matter is that the Jews have created a huge boom for Arabs in the Land of Israel.
******its also true that blacks who game here as slaves are now far better off than they would have been had they not been captured and brought here. But this does not justify slavery and has nothing to do a rational peace in the Middle East.
Before the Zionist movement in the late 19th C--there were very few Arabs in historic Palestine. Immigration of Jews spawned immigration of Arabs into the Land. Israel is now home to so many millions of Arabs whose ancestors necer THOUGHT of living on Jewish soil. Israel has created Arab life in the land--there are millions of Arabs now when just a 100 years ago, there were only a few hundred thousand.
*******the issue is about those Arabs living in Jewish created concentration camps who have deeds to property in Israel. I know you want to change the subject because the subject is beyond the reach of your superstitions.
So tell me, friend--what kind of genocide is this??
********only the concentration camps are genocide like; not modern Arabs in Israel or Blacks in America. The concentration camps like environment won't go away David!
Of course, any decent person understands that Jews once lived throughout the entire Middle Esat but were systematically murdered, driven from their homes and forced to immigrate to Israel--leaving their possessions behind.
******no one is disputing this so why mention it???
Now by law, it is illegal for a Jew to live in any Arab state, illegal for a Jew to own land, in some cases, illegal for a Jew to even visit a specific Areab State where his ancestors lived for 3000 years. This is very bad.
********yes all quite true but you could hardly be more irrelevant. Is there a peace plan in there that I missed or are you just flapping your gums because you have nothing to say??
You, sir are very scary.
********I'm sure logic frightens you to death.
How you can look at such a circumstance and blame the Jews while the biggest thugs in the world look blameless in your eyes.
*******silly ranting against the Arabs(although mostly true) for no purpose whatsoever.
Surely, if I was mugged on some street corner--I would not want you on the jury since you might logically convict me instead of my attacker.
******now there is a peace plan for the Middle East???
What did the Jews ever do to you?
*********they tricked America into starting WW3 to defend the Zionism.
Ted/David
*******ah more name calling. It seems to be 80% of what you do. Glad you have a little fight left in you, but lets see what logic will do for you. Please do not be afraid to learn and think. Do you want to die just as your are or do you want to grow?
You use inflammatory language. You allege that the Jews commit GENOCIDE--- this is a particularly delicious strategy. Accusing the Jews of committing violence against others as violence was committed against themselves. Classic and very libelous.
*******if you read Benny Morris you will see that Golda Meir also found that the condition of the evicted Arabs reminded her of Hitler's Jews.
Then, you also reference "superstition" without regard to the fact that the superstitions of the Arabs CAUSE needless conflict and pain.
*****yes I think the Arabs are superstitious and dumb and cruel too but that does not change the peace plan to which you originally responded. You find it too painful to stick to the subject so you get lost in irrelevancy but always cling to your irrationality and superstition.
The world suffers over the Arab insistence that Jerusalem is somehow "Holy" to them.
You see holiness is not allowed to the Jewish people--only the Arabs.
******that is again very stupid, the UN and most of the world acknowledge that Jerusalem is an holy international city to which 3 religions, or superstitions, can lay legitimate claim to the extend that superstitions can be lay legitimate claim.
Fine--please....let the Arabs be holy and seek holiness.
******sadly that is their right;that is how freedom works
The trouble is that Jerusalem is
the capital of the Jewish state.
****** because you declared it so, despite the UN and the rest of the civilized world???
The Arabs claim it as their "third holiest site." But this is based on real superstition.
*******ah, so now you're distinguishing between real superstition and regular superstition?
The Dome of the Rock is by legend where Muhammad ascended to heaven in some mythical chariot. This is not history. It is rubbish. It was a mere slap to the Jews to place a large gold domed mosque right on top of the very real and the very historical Temple Mount where the Jewish people built two great temples. Further, the Mosque was created also as a slap against Christians that wish to have Jewish supremacy over the area. In fact, it is war. It is aggression.
*********please try to think just a little. Muslims, Christians, and Jews all have ancient superstitious claims in the Middle East but we aren't going to rearrange 21st Century borders to suit ancient superstitions. The Indians have a claim to Manhattan; in fact refugee movements populated the entire planet but this has nothing to do with modern internationally recognized borders.
What blame do you assign to the Arabs for this obvious provocation? The answer is none. Only Jews can provoke.
**********not at all, the Arabs attacked or provoked all along based of their superstitions and parochial natures but this does not relieve Zionists from their responsibility to do the right thing.
The genocide allegation is so void of any merit. It is so shocking that anyone could ever utter it.
*******the Arabs were driven out of Israel and now live in near concentration camps on the West Bank; this is close enough to genocide. The Jews don't kill the Arabs like we killed the Nazis because their guilt won't allow them too. They are guilty about Zionism and the world knows it. Israel still has right to exist however!
The fact of the matter is that the Jews have created a huge boom for Arabs in the Land of Israel.
******its also true that blacks who game here as slaves are now far better off than they would have been had they not been captured and brought here. But this does not justify slavery and has nothing to do a rational peace in the Middle East.
Before the Zionist movement in the late 19th C--there were very few Arabs in historic Palestine. Immigration of Jews spawned immigration of Arabs into the Land. Israel is now home to so many millions of Arabs whose ancestors necer THOUGHT of living on Jewish soil. Israel has created Arab life in the land--there are millions of Arabs now when just a 100 years ago, there were only a few hundred thousand.
*******the issue is about those Arabs living in Jewish created concentration camps who have deeds to property in Israel. I know you want to change the subject because the subject is beyond the reach of your superstitions.
So tell me, friend--what kind of genocide is this??
********only the concentration camps are genocide like; not modern Arabs in Israel or Blacks in America. The concentration camps like environment won't go away David!
Of course, any decent person understands that Jews once lived throughout the entire Middle Esat but were systematically murdered, driven from their homes and forced to immigrate to Israel--leaving their possessions behind.
******no one is disputing this so why mention it???
Now by law, it is illegal for a Jew to live in any Arab state, illegal for a Jew to own land, in some cases, illegal for a Jew to even visit a specific Areab State where his ancestors lived for 3000 years. This is very bad.
********yes all quite true but you could hardly be more irrelevant. Is there a peace plan in there that I missed or are you just flapping your gums because you have nothing to say??
You, sir are very scary.
********I'm sure logic frightens you to death.
How you can look at such a circumstance and blame the Jews while the biggest thugs in the world look blameless in your eyes.
*******silly ranting against the Arabs(although mostly true) for no purpose whatsoever.
Surely, if I was mugged on some street corner--I would not want you on the jury since you might logically convict me instead of my attacker.
******now there is a peace plan for the Middle East???
What did the Jews ever do to you?
*********they tricked America into starting WW3 to defend the Zionism.
Ted/David
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